Matt Coffy: Everything you said is just super solid by the way. I really appreciate this discussion because your attitude is point on with how I think as well and it’s really cool. So getting a little granular these companies that you now, from a company perspective, not necessarily small guys but a lot of thousand dollar, two thousand dollar a month club type of clients who are small businesses. To get to 700,000 with only a handful of employees, you’ve gotta be taking on larger sized clients and that to me has gotta be the key here. Is that what’s happening or am I missing something?
Kotton Grammer: Well, one of the things that really teach me, one of my coaches inside of OMG is that I have a minimum right now even when I first started, my minimum was $4,000 to start. I didn’t care what it was. It was a minimum and I can demand that because of my results. What I show people, what I’ve ranked, how I’ve ranked it, where I’m at, how visibly, not hiding anywhere with my rankings, they know that they’re getting the best. So if they want to go to someone cheaper, there’s always an upper level. You can go when you can buy a Hyundai or you can go when you can buy a cheap Honda but there’s always Rolls Royce so instead of choosing to be the Toyota or the Nissan, that’s the mid-level stuff, I chose to bet he rolls Royce.
So I lost a lot if clients along the way but instead, what I did was I made my very expensive clients happy. Ever since, I’ve raised my minimum. To work with me is now $5,000 a month. I don’t have any problems getting that and what I have done is I have brought on every client to make them so happy that I’ve turned them into my employees. And what I mean by that is I’ve never had to have a sales staff because I worked my client base. I continue to let them know, hey look if you’re running into a financial crunch or if you want some months free on your SEO, I’ve always put the soft out there, get me three clients that I can sign up and I’ll do all of your SEO for free.
So what’s happened is even businesses that can’t afford me that want to work with me, I give them that same offer. I said look, I understand that your advertising budget might be in the pinch right now, and I understand that you want to work with me. Here’s my minimums I can tell you, would you like to hear how I can do for you for free? They’re like absolutely. Bring me three referrals that I can sign up at the same price that I listed to you and I’ll do you for free. Believe it or now, 60% of the people come back with all three. Some do with one, I would say about 80% come back with one.
So now what I have is I’ve never had to hire a sales force because of the people and the desire that want to work with me are out pulling these people in for me. So even when and it’s kind of hard for people to understand this, I lose at least $50,000 worth of business a month. I’ve gotta add 50,000 to maybe a 100,000 for the business a month. I can pretty much send out 1 autoresponder email to my clients and say hey look, AMP pages just came out where Google said it. I’ll write up a nice article for all my past and prospective clients that says, hey look. AMP pages are coming up right now and Google says it’s really important. Here’s the information about it, if you like for me to take care of your stuff for free, send me two clients. And generally, I’m loaded with so many people that I need to call back in referrals, what I do is after they’re my clients, and during they’re my clients, I refuse to accept money.
So even when I someone that the search engine optimization’s going to take 6 to 8 months, at the end of 8 months, I’m done with them and I say hey look, here’s your number 1 ranking, we’re good, are you happy? Man, I’m ecstatic. We’re getting traffic of we’re getting traffic. Then they go, now what happens? I say, well, like with anything, if you work out, you can’t sit on the couch and eat Cheetos and Doritos the whole time. We’re going to have to do some maintenances on the site. Well how much is that going to cost? I don’t take money. Well what do you mean? I only take referrals. If you want me to refresh your site, continue to keep sending me referrals and l always refresh your site for you for free.
So that’s how I’ve been able to build my business is through word of mouth to other people by greater influence than I do and I just bounced off and bounced off to where you really don’t have to look for clients anymore. They’re all coming to me. So the advertising I have to do is their Facebook to tell their stuff. You never have to do that. I’ve worked inside my own kind of ecosystem and be able to build it out like that and it still, I can’t get to all the referrals and all of my clients send me to this day.
[clickToTweet tweet="I build business through word of mouth to other people with greater influence me - Kotton Grammer" quote="I build business through word of mouth to other people with greater influence me - Kotton Grammer"]
Matt Coffy: That’s fascinating. That is a different approach to this marketing business. We live in a world that’s faced with so many different decisions to make and I absolutely see that pathway as being something amazing for people to incorporate into their process if they’re going to build out an agency. If they’re going to build out some sort of infrastructure that relies on itself to support itself.
What do you think? We look at results that we produce for clients, we’re fine and of course people find us because we’re in New Jersey, type in SEO new jersey, we come up along with our buddies over there. I guess the question is going to be, what’s next? What do you see that’s coming? Obviously we’re in this sort of purple patch of SEO where I kind of call it because not very many people can do it now. A couple of years ago, there was a lot of people but we’re seeing a lot of this change of the guard where people having difficulty and a lot of it has to do with the fact there’s a lot of clamp down structure that’s out there that’s been built and is paying ones whatever next animal be out there.
What do you think is coming next and what do you anticipate the change of the guard as we move through this phase, I think, which is coming? We’re going to have to all think about what is our business at the end of the day because SEO is probably ten years from now, we’ll look back and said well back then yeah but what it’s now?
Kotton Grammer: It’s an evolving business that’s for sure. I know that when I started two and a half years ago, how I was doing SEO was entirely different than how I’m doing it now. So with that, that’s what researching development calls is in there. Greg Morris and I, I’m surrounded by some pretty great SEOs that I consider my best friends. We’ve got Greg Morrision, Flex Gormofolio, Steven Floyd, Derek Wusiak. I call these other guys. They’re just absolutely amazing and we literally are researching development all the time.
Greg has over a thousand sites out right now so where he’s ranking things in different ways and evolving is what we have to do. There’s a lot of ways SEO is identical to what it was two and a half years ago, it’s just people want to do it differently. There’s like 15 different new ways to rank that we didn’t have two and a half years ago. There was just literally 3 paths and now there’s like 15 paths.
So what happens is because people are literally stricken with not understanding which direction to go then you’ve got this SEO guru over here that’s saying go this way, this person is saying is go that way. We just brought in a thousand people into OMG. In January, and all of them will have an incredibly ranking results and all of them are having incredible success for clients because we took all the decision out of the forum. Here look, put your blinders in, go this way, do this. This is what’s working. Do this. They do.
[clickToTweet tweet="People are paralyzed with indecision. SEO is pretty simple. - Kotton Grammer" quote="People are paralyzed with indecision. SEO is pretty simple. - Kotton Grammer"]
So with SEO, to me, the core way to rank hasn’t changed. It’s just people have too many decisions and that’s a good thing for us but because I love playing round in and ranking one thing this way, ranking one thing that way, to me, I worry about SEO getting oversaturated because the information out there about SEO that actually works is so easy to get access to even more so than it was three years ago or five years ago from when I talked to people.
So I just think that if you’ll look and if you find the right people, you’re going to get the right answers. It’s just there’s so many people out there that try to make a quick buck because they’ve had a couple good months of success and they want to be coaches and teachers and really shouldn’t be. And the information gets skewed and everyone goes man, this guy’s following but I like to think that OMG has had a pretty good grasp on which direction to move SEO. For the last two and a half years and I haven’t had any problems with it.
I don’t see SEO going away. I just see different shifts. Links are never going to go away. There’s no way that they can take links out of the way. Search and click is going to become the new SEO. Peoples going to start to realize that Google is relying a whole lot more on where people are searching and clicking. That’s very been integrated over the last years and all of search engine optimization but overall that’s really the only new thing that’s been added that I can really put my finger on. Is just search and click over the last two and a half years just taken away, spammy methods. Ranking that everyone did with GSAs so we’re finding cleaner ways to rank stuff but links are not going to go away anytime soon. I like to think links are around for sure for the next five years at least.
Matt Coffy: Thanks to OMG. Obviously we’re a big follower. We got people on our team that are very deep into the daily activity coming out of OMG and it actually has an event and I’m looking forward to going to the next one as well. But one of the things that’s question in my mind is where does this scale the best? People like Becker and Elfcays, I mean these guys are not inventing products and software that scales from, I guess you could say, a different area. So it’s not so customer-driven. It’s more subscription driven.
And the subscription model to me is interesting because I feel that at the end of the day, maybe the logistical issues of building agencies. What do you think? Is there something you’re eventually think you’re going to be involved in?
Kotton Grammer: No, not at all. I just think that Becker, he’s like one of my best friends and Becker is brilliant. The guy is 27 years old. Absolutely. I wish I was that smart at 27. What Becker is doing is he’s satisfying the market. There’s so many more people that are getting into SEO right now. And I don’t want to say to OMG that does this or that or we’re great. We’re just a bunch of guys who are doing at SEO but we do a pretty good job at marketing ourselves up the mainstream. When you got people like Bob Proctor who promoted us, who’ve given up his lifetime recommendation. That brings in a lot of people that I had no clue was search engine optimization was or anything else so what our focus has been on is to get out of the IM space and to start focusing on more of the motivational space and the business space to where people are like oh wow, we didn’t know this information was available.
So there’s been a flood of people studying SEO and doing SEO on their own. And Alex is just seen in opening to where he’s developed all this software and stuff to kind of curb the supply and demand for all of this. I myself have no desire to get in that space. I will be in consulting. I will be running my agency to bring all my information back and put it inside of OMG. I really want to get into the motivation space. I’m going to be doing speaking event for Alexander Becker’s book launch on April 1st. speaking with Calone and Lopez and I’m not going to be talking about SEO. It’s going to be a motivational speech.
So that’s kind of my true passion. My big fans are John Maxwell, Tony Robbins, Jim Rohns, Zig Ziegler, Bryan Tracy. Guys like that who I grew up with that I really pull and really without that mindset, I could not be where I am today. So that’s where my passion is at is to reach people and motivate more people through mindset along with continuing to break boundaries with literally in the trenches of what SEO is. I absolutely enjoy it. I love the research and development and able to bring that research back to the community. That’s what drives me. At this point, money really doesn’t matter at this point. It’s the enjoyment I get at seeing, helping people inside the OMG community. Get more success.
Matt Coffy: I think we’re cut from the same exact cloth. I couldn’t agree with you more with everything that you’ve said that’s really cool that you’re going to be with Tai and with Becker. Is this coming up, not too far away. Is this in Vegas?
Kotton Grammer: It’s April 1st. Mandelay Bay in Las Vegas.
Matt Coffy: That is going to be an amazing, amazing event. So a couple more questions and I want to kind of wrap us up here because we’ve been at it for 20 minutes and although I could probably do 20 hours or 20 days of this stuff, we are very close in this thinking.
Going back to looking at the influences and the relevance to where you sort of are leaning yourself into, I really dig the fact that this element to view spreading yourself into the next business model, I’m trying to support the thought process around the mental capabilities to do this. I really do believe at the end of the day, attitude is the only thing that makes the difference between how we really get to a point for success will not.
[clickToTweet tweet="At the end of the day, attitude is the only thing that makes the difference - Kotton Grammer" quote="At the end of the day, attitude is the only thing that makes the difference - Kotton Grammer"]
How do you get your attitude around this influence, you mentioned some big names there but the attitude of how you go to this next level? I really like to understand because there are a lot of people who would love to be at the 700,000 a month club. That’s an amazing number. And you’ve talked about your resources and where you came from.
What’s the attitude that you put in to your day? Where does that come from? Besides the fact that you’ve been motivated by this story that you told, it really sounds to me that you have a quest more than anything else. I’d like you to talk about that.
Kotton Grammer: I think my quest comes from, I’ve always had something in my heart that I knew that we’re here to learn. We’re here to be better. And I think what happens with a lot of people is they get stuck in their routines and they feel that life is just about hey let’s get married, let’s have kids, let’s go to work and let’s end and I’ve never wanted to look at life like that. I wanted to enrich myself and I’ve spent ten years, twenty years developing inside.
John Maxwell is probably my greatest mentor. I’ve read all of his books. His books are my bibles for motivation but now what’s really got me on my quest is that was intra, is outra is how I treat other people. how I make other people feel. What am I putting out, what vibes am I putting out to make people feel better? So now I’m on a different learning path to make people feel better. If I spent 15 minutes from you, did you walk away better than if you would have just did nothing. And that’s what my journey is on right now.
Ultimately what got my fire in my heart is back to my grandmother, she had so much faith in me and she believed in me probably more than anybody and to know that on her deathbed that she didn’t get a chance to see the best of me really affects me to this day. And a lot of us can look back and I don’t want to look back in life and say that I give the best me to everything. Did I cheat the people inside of OMG that’s paid this money to get this course? Did I cheat them? and I continue to worry about it. did I cheat my clients? Did I give them my best? Have I given my best to just this interview? Everything, I try to give my all to, and look back and have no regrets. And that’s what drives me. Is I just want to be on my deathbed whenever that is and look back and know that I’m satisfied looking back at everything that I’ve done and I have no regrets.
Matt Coffy: I think that’s a legacy thing. At the end of the day, that’s one of the things I write about a lot is that legacy is currency at the end of the day and I think that we really do have an impact that we want to provide. I know that the level of, obviously you have to consider the ego piece in that and then there’s the fine line between the higher ended folks who put a little bit too much emphasis on, but that’s okay. At the end of the day, I think what you’re saying, and this is really cool, is that you’re going to continue to drive your education, your experience, and try and get the best way to impact others from that as part of your flight to this next level which is you’re going into SEO sort of world and trying to move to the next thing and that takes a lot of the same thing.
There’s a lot of black belt in there. There’s a lot of years and years and years of getting stripes to the point that you can actually evangelize this mental state which doesn’t come from basically a fake business. It comes from what you’re doing which is just an amazing amount, numbers. This has been a terrific interview Kotton Grammer.
Anything other than the event from April that you want to let anyone who’s got their earphones on right now, listening to this, that would like to interact with you or any events. You’ve got OMG stuff coming up but some stuff that you might want to mention besides the April1st Event.
Kotton Grammer: I’m not really into self-promotion. Kind of of an underground guy. You’re not going to see me on any Facebook ads. You’re not going to see me post an income reports on my Facebook wall or anything like that. You liked what I’ve said. If you want to get SEO training, people can look up OMG Machines.com. That’s like where you can find me where I’m at daily. I’m just going to try to live a life the best that I can and hopefully share it with people along the way with my business path. And hopefully it helps people and that’s all I can do. Even though people want to reach out to me, my websites KottonGrammer.com and they can drop me a line and I’m always open to help people but that’s the only event I have. We like do free events all year long. If you go and search in Facebook for the OMG way. That’s our free OMG group. We post all of our free events and our first event is April 1st in Las Vegas. We just get together and meet people. you don’t have to be an OMG member. We just do meet and greets and our next event after that is going to be in Denver which is May 14th and all that information is inside the Facebook group OMG.
Matt Coffy: Kotton it’s been a pleasure. I hope we can come back and do this more than once. I have so much more I want to ask you but I think our listeners could take a breather and we’ll catch you on the other side and I really do think that we are very close in our thinking. It’s almost like talking to a mirror.
Kotton Grammer: It’s been a pleasure. I’m happy to be on anytime.