Med Spas are the stars of medical specialties, but did you know there are other specialties out there that can give you just as much profit? Listen in as our marketing experts talk about the medical community and help you figure out how to maximize your profitability for any kind of medical practice. Learn the ropes of patient journeys, longterm opportunities, and even how the same approach can be applied to your specialty of choice. All these and more, in this week's podcast.
MATT COFFY: Okay. So we have another session with RFL and this is our monthly sort of get together. Let's see what happened and all the fun things that, w on a daily basis say, hi, Erica, sorry. I didn't say hi
ERICA BREINING: Everyone. Welcome to our podcast today.
MATT COFFY: Yeah, so this episode is really dedicated to sort of looking at some different things outside of med spa. We're going to look at some different types of doctors because we do a lot more than obviously the aesthetics, and we spend a lot of time on aesthetics and social. So we're going to go through that a little bit, but I think the key here is to show success with specialties that are, things that we've been doing for years. Cause we obviously are not just looking at, always the same types of services in the aesthetics world. We're looking at multiple different services. And one of the things for you, the listener or the watcher, is to also identify with the fact that just because we show one specialty, is not indicative of all specialties, meaning all specialties are a part of the medical community, but the customer or the patient goes through the same journey and it might not have the same cost per acquisition or the cost per lead, in each category. But the very same similar principles apply in each approach. So let's talk about the first one. That's going to be on our radar screen and we're showing some ad sets for a OB GYN. So, why don't you talk a little bit about it, Erica, and then we'll, we'll go into some details. I'll ask some questions, which I think the listener or the viewer might want to have as a standpoint.
ERICA BREINING: Okay sure, Matt. So this is a client, this is a OB GYN in Maryland. They have a smaller budget, but I think with, what we've been able to, what we've been given as a budget, it's really a positive story. So this client, they have about a $1000 for the month and you can see over the past two months we've spent $2100 cost per clicks of only $1. 36, for medical keywords. These are exact match type keywords like gynecologists near me, OB GYN near me, that we have gotten this low. This is, pretty crazy. you can see they have 176 inquiries and 25 phone calls with a cost per conversion of around $11.
MATT COFFY: Let's, stop there. Cost per conversion. So for you listener or the person that's trying to figure this out, cause it might be stuff that you haven't heard before, cost per conversion can be a phone call. It can be a lead form. It can be an inbound lead from a, piece of material that's out, from one of the ads. But a lot of the time when we look at a cost per conversion, we're talking about gathering the data of a customer, meaning their name, their address, their phone number. And that's typically being done in this particular case with ads running in Google that have driven a customer who's inquiring about OB GYN services. And now they're post production, meaning that they've gone now into a lead flow strategy because they've given their data over to us or they've made a phone call, right Am I missing anything there, Erica Well,
ERICA BREINING: One very important thing. Another conversion that we're counting is actually appointment requests on the website. So these are all actions that are very strong actions. These are like you said, phone calls, web forms or actual appointment requests. So very serious type of actions that we're counting as conversions.
MATT COFFY: Right And a lot of people ask us about when we start doing this with clients, they, they ask a very simple question. Well, what does that mean for the people? How many people convert into people walking through the door, right? And I think there's an eyeball perspective here. If they have 176 conversions over two months, right, You said it was a 60 days window, that's
ERICA BREINING: Plus another 25 phone calls. So let's say 200,
MATT COFFY: So two. And so a hundred different opportunities walking through the door. Well, if you think about what that might mean for a typical conversion rate for an OB GYN clinic, that's usually pretty high. That's usually a pretty good conversion rate because those people are usually not fooling around. It's not like I'm kicking the tires type of story and an aesthetics practice. And I want to just see your pricing. This is " I've got an issue" or "I need to speak with someone". And the conversion rates are probably 70% or better in most of these cases. So the, obviously the, you know, this is a different model with OB GYN, with insurance-based claims and so forth. So obviously $2,000 mapped up to 200 opportunities. It's a significant, significant turnaround.
ERICA BREINING: Absolutely. Especially Matt taking into consideration that the majority of those people who are becoming patients will be lifetime patients with, you know, repeat issues or yearly, you know, physicals or exams. So, even just beyond the initial return on investment, there's such a long-term opportunity as well, just from that $2,000 that was initially spent to acquire a patient.
MATT COFFY: Right. And if we look back in time, we're also able to retarget that patient base, right So all the people that have clicked on these ads, so there's 2,500 or I can't see the number on my screen
ERICA BREINING: 1500 clicks.
MATT COFFY: Right So 1500 people have been through this. So we can now re- target those people for future processes. And then we've had over 25,000 impressions so that their brand is now being elevated as well.
ERICA BREINING: That's correct. Yes.
MATT COFFY: Good. So all really good things. we'd be fairly certain that the doctor is pretty happy with these types of results.
ERICA BREINING: Quite happy that the doctor actually, of course we have, you know, recommended a budget increase with these types of results, especially because, you know, the search impression share is only, only 10%. So, you know, even with these great results, you know, they're still missing out on 90% of the market, but because of her own internal issues, she can't even handle more patients. So there's, you know, even way more potential here that we could capture.
MATT COFFY: All right. And it's a good story, where we know the scale of this business is almost to a point where how many patients can you take. And a lot of people ask us when we get started with them, "How many patients can you guys get me?" And I always say, how many can you take Because we can run it to scale. It's just mathematical to some degree, people who are not in the business of marketing, And I think in general, who don't understand how it works is that there's an infant ismal demand pretty much for most of these services. The question is, do you want to put budget and can you get the best possible lead out of that? Now, some people would say, well, is the best lead, the lowest cost per acquisition so that I get more volume. And the answer is typically the opposite, which is what you want is a customer of higher value, which typically comes with a little bit higher of a cost, but you get a better yield over time because that patients get your returning patient, as you mentioned,
ERICA BREINING: That's correct. Yes.
MATT COFFY: Awesome. So we have a great, great story with this OB GYN clinic. What's our next story.
ERICA BREINING: Let's highlight a vein doctor, a pain management vein doctor that we have, two locations: one in New Jersey, one in, Westchester county, New York. This client has a very healthy budget. Over the past two months, we have a $10,000 to $11,000 spent, per location. And we can see for the new New Jersey location, we have generated, 91 forms and 12 phone calls for cost per conversion of one 20. And then we have Westchester county, which is, quite competitive. And you can see the CPC is, is pretty much double New Jersey of a, 51 conversions, nine calls with a cost per conversion of two 13. Now, if we look at this industry, it's a little different, these vein procedures can represent to this surgeon anywhere from, you know, $25,000 to $100,000 per patient. So this client has a little more tolerance for a higher cost per conversion, but, you know, you can see we've generated what 142 plus another 21, on $20,000 of spend. And again, I mean, this literally represents hundreds of thousands of dollars if not close to a million for this particular vein surgeon.
MATT COFFY: Right. And we also understand that there are different types of things, surgeries, right There's ablations. This is mainly for ablations. Yeah. So when, when you talk about vein surgeries, there's different types of models, right. T here are, minimally invasive strategies, and there are also the more, as you mentioned, medical based surgical, ablations, that will be more in tune with what really, what you're looking at in this model, but we've done all sorts of different categories. This one happens to be active with the medical side, and I always wonder, you know, cost per lead and then cost per acquisition. So we have a lot of times that people need to understand that it's a post-sale process. So these leads come in and then they have to be cleared, right So they also need to go through a secondary process. And a lot of people don't realize behind the scenes, what we do to help that out. there's a lot of follow-ups that we actually support these clients with, whether we're calling them directly in getting their, insurance information or the specific procedure before they get there, so that the client themselves spending less time on operation flow and more time doing surgeries. And can you talk a little bit about that?
ERICA BREINING: Absolutely. And even, you know, some of the keywords that we're, negating like a lot of the insurances that this client doesn't accept, you know, we're negating that from the searches, even on the landing page, you know, we're saying the main insurances that are accepted, so we're trying to, you know, weed out a lot of the conversions, that may not be candidates; that's the first step. The second step is all about the nurturing. As the lead comes into the funnel, you know, they receive automation through our customized CRM profit engines. And in that very first message, the very first question that it's asking this lead is "Which insurance do you have?" So, you know, we're trying to help the client number one, first receive the best quality lead possible. But number two, then the ones that do get through, we're trying to give them tools and help to get the lead, to respond to us quickly, but also give us that information that we need right away so that we know if this person is a candidate or not.
MATT COFFY: Right. So key element here, listener or watcher, is post lead process. How are you handling clarification on case value versus case capability Right. So there's a case value that's related to the type of surgery or the type of medical procedure. And there is a case capability. So there's a capability of that client to, A, pay and B, are they qualified, from medical sample. So there's, those questions can be done. And we have an outbound. Our, PracticeB loom has a outbound call center to help with these. And I wouldn't even call it a call center. I call it a client or a patient care center that we can set up, a dialogue with a patient so that when these leads come through, they're clean. And a lot of the things that we've run into over time is that our clients have asked us time after time.
MATT COFFY: I love that you guys are delivering leads and it's great, but we need to see if we can get more qualified leads delivered and not waste time on people who may not meet our criteria. So we've done the filtering for them in a lot of cases. So it solves the time- energy dilemma, which is when you have one front desk person or limited front desk people or limited staff, or just not the ability to, want to do the work, and put those people to doing other more important things. We can sort of take that, pressure off the front end and bring that time back to the candidates that we're working with. So that's awesome. Is there anything else that's significant about this particular, pay study
ERICA BREINING: I think I would want to touch a little bit on audience targeting. We have some very specific bid adjustments in for this client. In zip codes that we are targeting, like some of the larger corporations that carry like great insurance that, you know, our client knows that, you know, has strong reimbursements, they accept the insurance. So we're doing a lot of targeting, you know, kind of like you mentioned, Matt, that we want to bring the best quality lead possible. You know, with the insurance barrier that, you know, that's another layer of filtering that we have to really do a great job so that we're making the best use of the ad dollars and the highest optimization possible.
MATT COFFY: Right. And there's a couple of sneaky tricks in there. If you wanted to go after specific buildings that relate to employees, we can use some very hyper-targeted, longitude and latitude, targeting, both in Facebook. And, there are some coordinates you can work with within AdWords, but more importantly, you can tailor the ad sets to even speak to those people. When you start the launch, the ad sets to even use their brand within the framework. If you want to go that deep, you can even go into specific branded strategy, plus an offer for that brand and then work with the brand itself. There are so many different variables that you can apply and not one size fits all. But what I will say is that what you've mentioned is that with targeting and custom targeting, an audience targeting re-targeting, you know, if you don't have these things in play, you're sort of losing the football game, that's percentage points to your competitors. And that's why it's important to think through when you start running these ads, is to talk about exactly who you want to get and then use your marketing team, whether they're us or another company, to get your, relevance to the person who's looking at the ad as closely as possible to them and their emotional state. The closer we get to the story that's in their head, the quicker we get the conversion.
ERICA BREINING: Exactly well said.
MATT COFFY: So next we want to talk a little bit about our social strategy. Now we're going to move back into the aesthetics world. I really love what we're doing with Instagram, and I know it's driving tons of business, hundreds of thousands of dollars of business on a monthly basis for our clients. Instagram is the place to be, if you are in aesthetics and let's just say that category where, you know where these people are, they're looking at pictures, where else do you look at pictures and videos? And it's in Instagram, obviously within the framework of Facebook, it's a part of Facebook's algorithm with the ad spend, but it's separate in the organic space. So let's talk a little bit about that.
ERICA BREINING: Okay. Absolutely. So, this is an Instagram account that we manage. They have 20,400 followers, and these were all recently acquired since last July. So it's a, it's a newer account. We have had some like crazy growth and, I think some of the secrets
MATT COFFY: 20,000 new subscribers in one year? That's insane. Yeah, exactly. So it does prove the point that, you know, we go into the matter of, who's got the bigger stick and it's, who's going to grow with their staff maybe more than who's got the biggest stick.
ERICA BREINING: Exactly. Now there it's, it's a combination of organic and, you know, boosted posts. So, you know, it's all about an overall strategy for reaching targeted followers and driving engagement on the page so that we rank on hashtag views, especially hashtags that are local. you know, I think that's the biggest challenge that we see that, you know, local businesses have is, you know, how do they know that their followers are actually like local And, you know, we're going to like come in their business and spend money. And, you know, that's where I say it comes down to two, hashtags. So let me pull up a post and, you know, show you what I mean. So, you know, this also, so the client they're sending us, you know, raw video, raw images, we're cleaning everything up for them.
ERICA BREINING: We're making it look very polished professional. And then we're writing these great captions. So, you know, we're not just writing like two, three lines. Instagram is, you know, recognizing that this, you know, account is somewhat of an authority on the subject. You know, they have several paragraphs, you know, we have a call- to -action for engagement. And then, you know, we go into the hashtags. All of our hashtags are very relevant. We're not spamming hashtags. that's super important when you want to rank on searches and we were using all 30 tags. So you want to use all 30 tags, you want the tags to be relevant. And then when I mentioned local tags, you see we're using the client's city: Summit, New Jersey, Summit moms. Florham park is where his biggest competitor is, Short Hills. That's a neighboring town as well, his county.
ERICA BREINING: And then, you know, some other terms that have to do with New Jersey. So I think those are some really like key things that, you know, we've done well for this client that, you know, he's able to grow organically and he's reaching people that don't already follow him. So then we drive profile traffic, they liked the profile and, you know, they hit follow profile is strong. We also have a call to action to book online. You know, this is a great page. We also have Dr. Sony does an about us highlight it stands out. That's also another little tip and secret that I like my accounts to have because you know, we're going to drive tons of traffic to the profile, but what's going to actually make them hit follow and learn, learn a little something about you. So I love that, about us highlight, I know I'm talking so quick. You have any questions, Matt?
MATT COFFY: Well, I think from a standpoint or a viewer, is the person invested in this. It's as if you know, Instagram in itself is like a mini website. You know, if you're sort of setting it up to become a showcase. And what people fail to recognize is the engagement, right. So if you look on these posts, I think what you see is you don't see just plays, but you see the amount of comments, right? And that's the thing that I believe people are somewhat mis construed about how Instagram works, Instagram works based off of engagement metrics and plays. And so when you see this type of maneuvering where you're seeing 6,000 plays, 5,000 plays, whatever, that's nothing compared to what the true money is in this game, which is that who's responding and saying something, and then what are we doing afterwards, right? So when someone does respond, right, what's the strategy. And I think that's where a lot of people fail. Can we talk a little bit about that?
ERICA BREINING: Absolutely. So, you know, we try to engage people first, you know, in the comments, and then we direct them to the direct messages. If they have further questions, if they want a book, it's so simple, we just send them right here, click the link in the bio. And we, we track this within ProfitE ngines, our CRM. So we know exactly how many taps we're getting on this link, to request appointments directly from Instagram. This is also a great way to track your ROI from social media, which a lot of people have a hard time, tracking. Another thing that, you know, we do do we put, you can't see because this is a desktop version, but we do have a tracking phone number here, which also goes into our CRM profit engines. So we're able to track phone calls and appointment requests and then add the corresponding ROI so that clients know exactly how effective their social media game is as an overall picture compared with their other marketing strategies.
MATT COFFY: Yeah. And a lot of people fall short of doing what you just said, which is understanding the transparency of what they're doing. I just got off the phone call with someone who called me and I said, "Do you know what Your acquisition costs are per channel?" And the answer I got was "What does that mean?" Right. And I think people don't understand if you're going to be spending money and doing ads, you're going to be spending money on doing social posts, you're going spend the money on, any of the quadrants that you're doing, you're marketing. You have to get a grip on where your acquisition costs are in each channel so that you can make a better decision on putting money towards the channels that performing. And then the yield curves, just like a economic situation is that if you, if you can measure your yield curves, what's driving, not just the lead flow and an acquisitions, but what's driving revenue.
MATT COFFY: Well, if you saw a spike in a yield curve that said, "Hey, it looks like we're yielding from a dollars to lead, management process." All of these Instagrams are converting to paid patients because you're tracking them through the system that you mentioned. We use Profit Engines as our main system, we can track dollar volume per channel, and now you can make better decisions based off of your channels on where you want to put your spend, because you could say our yield curve in, let's say Instagram, we're tracking it is tenants, but we're getting out of Google, right So you'd want to leverage the, spend more in Instagram in that case, because you knew you were getting a better yield from your dollars. So those are the things to think about. Did I miss anything?
ERICA BREINING: I just pulled up another account, Matt. I know this is another one of our showcases that we know when we bring in new clients and we onboard them. You know, we try to show them successful accounts to emulate, this account. We started working with her last February. She had 2,500 and now has over 70,000. Almost zero ads have been run on this page. This is almost all organic. So, you know, there's so much that, you know, can be done with strong content, you know, great before and afters, great videos. This particular client, you know, she's very involved. She speaks to her audience. You know, it's a really great thing when we have a client that works well with us, you know, they send us the content, we coach them, we pretty it up. And then we come up with this amazing strategy. This particular client has had to hire, I believe, two PAs and an NP. And it used to just be her, last year. So, I mean, her business has literally taken off only from organic social.
MATT COFFY: Right. And that's the real story here, which is that there's more ways to skin a cat, especially with this aesthetics world that we live in, because of the attractiveness of the market that you're going after in Instagram, in this particular case, because it's a focal point for a lot of people, because that's what Instagram is. It is a visual and adaptive sharing platform. And so we really are learning that if people want to do these scenarios where they want to go, give me as many patients as I can get. Well, you know what You've got to hit all cylinders. Then, you know, you're going to have to do an aggressive Instagram campaign, with good social strategy. You have to do a good Facebook campaign, and you have to obviously do a good content calendar. So you're mapping it together with your strategy. So there's obviously more things to talk about, other than these topics, when you're talking about channels, but we just wanted to cover a few today. So thank you, Erica. Really appreciate it. It was wonderful having another discussion here we are in another month in July, we'll see you again in August to do another wrap up and I'm excited to hear new stories. These were wonderful. And again, we'll chat with you soon. Me too. Thank you, Matt.
MATT AND ERICA: Bye. Bye.